(Basically crossposted from here.)
Sub Commander Stats:
- Cost: $30875 (T2 Crosspath: $31505; M2 Crosspath: $31625)
- Range: 42 (T1 Crosspath: 52)
- Camo: See Notes; otherwise, No
- Dart: 4 Damage, effective 1 Pierce (becomes Airburst on hit), x2 MOAB Damage
- Airburst: 2 Damage, 10 Pierce (M1 Crosspath: 13 Pierce), x2 MOAB Damage
- Attack Speed: 60/8
- Other: Command buff has all nearby Subs get x2 Damage to all attacks and +5 Pierce to Dart/Airburst (buff targeting includes self; stats above account for that)
- Notes: T2 allows for hitting enemies in other towers' registered ranges and Camo in Camo detecting towers' registered ranges; M2 allows for damaging Lead/Frozen
Recently, many people have voted Sub Commander to be the most OP tower in the game. After overviewing these stats just now, I can determine that the big problem is the crosspath balance. Even before then, I can be sure that problems were lying elsewhere, not with Sub Commander in and of itself.
The big explanation for as much can be provided by the challenge with this code: ZMKYGRY
I'm obviously reposting that challenge, where Advanced Intel is banned and the boat count is limited to 4, but what happens there is that Submarine has reliance on the top path to handle Camos without the M4 activation, except without Advanced Intel, that's not happening, and it gets to the point of ending up with the Heroes' strengths and weaknesses highlighted. I can certainly tell you that Quincy and Gwendolin are the only Heroes aside from Brickell who can get the Sub Commander while still throwing off R78's Camo Ceramics, although Pat Fusty and Churchill can at least deviate from the Sub's M4 activation. Quincy and Gwendolin manage it with their activations if you must know. Obyn runs afoul of pop count capacity on his activations if anybody thinks to point out about him thinking I hadn't checked with him. Striker Jones and Adora can't do anything to Camos, and Ezili and Benjamin have their attacks be too focused on singular targets. It's also worth noting that the Carrier Flagship does also boost all water towers, as well as Aces even if they're not available here, though the boost is simply multiplying the attack frequency by 20/17.
We can surmise that the Advanced Intel favoritism is what puts Sub Commander on everybody's radar. Without Advanced Intel, Sub Commander can't even attack Camos naturally at all, which with something as sleek as Sub compared to blunt Boat can be agonizing. I'm still for Brickell being nerfed and general Decamo handling being looked at, but there's no denying that the first 2 upgrades of the middle path need some better appeal in comparison, because +30% damage doesn't cut it when up against potentially infinite range. Obviously, Advanced Intel is part of everybody's Submarine usage for a reason, but it's so flowcharted that it's proof that we should consider other points before jumping against Sub Commander. Still, I do notice that Barbed Darts is subject to law of diminishing anyway, both for the Sub Commander and on the boosted Subs. That alone is worth calling out.
I may as well provide a table with estimated values, for both your convenience and mine:
| Upgrade Level | Price | DPS | DPS/$1K |
|---|---|---|---|
| T2/M2 | $1705 | 20/3 | 4000/1023 |
| T2/B2 | $2405 | 210/11 | 42000/5291 |
| M2/B2 | $2525 | 480/11 | 19200/1111 |
| T2/M2 (SC) | $1705 | 80/3 | 16000/1023 |
| T2/B2 (SC) | $2405 | 1320/11 | 264000/5291 |
| M2/B2 (SC) | $2525 | 1860/11 | 74400/1111 |
| B3/T2 | $3505 | 28 | 5600/701 |
| B3/M2 | $3625 | 64 | 512/29 |
| B3/T2 (SC) | $3505 | 176 | 35200/701 |
| B3/M2 (SC) | $3625 | 248 | 1984/29 |
| B4/T2 | $6505 | 68 | 13600/1303 |
| B4/M2 | $6625 | 104 | 832/53 |
| B4/T2 (SC) | $6505 | 256 | 51200/1303 |
| B4/M2 (SC) | $6625 | 328 | 2624/53 |
| B5/T2 | $31505 | 480 | 96000/6301 |
| B5/M2 | $31625 | 615 | 4920/253 |
I propose these suggestions to fix Submarine's balance:
T3 (Submerge and Support) Dart (but not Airburst) attack to have +1 Camo Bonus Damage
T4 (Bloontonium Reactor) Radioactive Pierce Base 70 -> 60- M2 (Heat-Tipped Darts) Dart (but not Airburst) Damage +0 -> +1
M2 (Heat-Tipped Darts) Cost $300 -> $800- B4/M2 Crosspath benefit of Airburst Pierce +4 (net Pierce 12)
- B5 (Sub Commander) Pierce boost to ally Subs' Dart/Airburst attacks +5 -> +3
- B5 (Sub Commander) Damage boosts only applying on M2 Crosspath
- B5 (Sub Commander) own Dart/Airburst Attacks naturally has doubled Damage
- B5/T2 Crosspath benefit of innate Camo ("our intel was a bit vague but it was certainly good enough for me")
With this, Heat-Tipped Darts would be more appealing on its own merits and would be able to compete with Advanced Intel even with involvement of the Sub Commander boosts, which with their overall nerfing would tone down supporting Airburst Darts. HTD would still provide worse DPS than ABD within the usage of Advanced Intel et al, but it would be more able to make use of remote effectiveness against more than DDTs and would have the advantage that the Dart doesn't explode into smaller projectiles that lack homing. This would especially apply with the Dart-only Damage boosts, since the Dart's homing and high lifespan already give it an advantage over Airbursts against spaced bloons and should be better emphasized to make sure of as much.
Having the Advanced Intel crosspath for Sub Commander get Camo detection would also punctuate the crosspath as more of a support tower. It is guaranteed that a Sub Commander with this crosspath would not come out until R58's Camo Leads are under control, and even then, the Camo detection wouldn't help the supporting Subs that eschew Advanced Intel for damage. The Camo hitting would still allow for more nuanced usefulness with the Sub Commander once the Damage boosting is locked to the M2 crosspath that won't have Advanced Intel or the T1 (Longer Range) upgrade's increased range behind that. It would also make sense for a Commander to make better use of any information they get and input it into coded communication that Advanced Intel would decipher more casually. Even better is that Sub Commander, being a Tier 5, can be on only one Sub at a time, ensuring under these changes that the player make their choice early on which buff to get, and more likely, they would get Advanced Intel for short term benefit, so the worth of the Damage doubling would be further punctuated.
I can grant that Sub Commander has some balance issues of its own, but I can determine how the bigger issues aren't entirely with Sub Commander itself. These suggestions should be good at addressing them. (Aside from Brickell shenanigans, of course, since she still speaks for herself.)