FANDOM


  • One trivia bullet says 5235, but if you click on the "MOAB assassins" link in the same bullet, it quotes needing only 4 MOAB assassin uses, suggesting the first layer has 4000 life.


    Anyone know? I am trying to find the first layer health for all 3 blimps.

      Loading editor
    • No...I tested on Down The Drain's Sandbox, and he took 5 MOAB Assassins abilities, 21 road spikes and 4 pineapples to pop. And no MOAB Mauler was attacking it.

        Loading editor
    • Interesting.  Strange because for the other balloons, the RBE value is consistent with their first layer's health (using Wiki sources).  That makes me wonder if the ZOMG takes reduced damage from some other sources.

      BTD 4/5 values

      M.O.A.B = 613 / 616 RBE.  Subtract 4 ceramics (104 RBE) to get 197 / 200. According to trivia, 20/21 spikes are needed to pop the first layer, or 200 / 220 damage.  The trivia doesn't say whether the entire spike pile is used up, so both of these fall within required numbers to be consistent with RBE.

      BFB = 2884 / 3165 RBE.  Subtract 4 MOAB to get 432 / 701.  According to trivia, it takes 288 / 317 spikes to pop the BFB.  This puts us at ~41 / 82 to pop the outer layer, or 410 / 910 damage.  The BTD4 spike value is about consistent.  The trivia also reports Moab Mauler only needing 70 attacks to pop the outer layer, which is consistent with 700 damage.

      ZOMG = 16,656 RBE.  Subtract 4 BFB to get 3996. 

      DDT = 924 RBE.  Subtract 6 ceramics to get 300.  Front page says it requires 350.

      So even though the other balloons are off slightly (MOAB and BFB almost negligible), the difference in ZOMG is really big which is strange.  Either the ZOMG is an exception, or he takes reduced damage from MOAB assassin, which wouldn't be surprising since he takes reduced damage from a lot of attacks.

      Thanks for the reply!

        Loading editor
    • Ok so I just tested it on the beginner ice level in BTD5.  I got 366 spikes, and the 366th killed him with 4 spikes left on its pile that I could see.

      I could have miscounted by one or two spikes.  I might try to go back later and get it right.  It's hard to keep track of them all though.


      Anyways, it's definitely within 3961 and 4077, the ones digit being between 1 and 7.

        Loading editor
    • Actually from your way, we know at least 235 damage was done (really good job with the pineapples!) so the one's digit is 5.

      In fact, if we say the MOAB assassin dealt 750 damage, it comes out to a nice even number at 3985.  The 750 is a nice rounded number that makes more sense than something like 756 or 801; 750 is just a 25% decrease in damage.  On top of that, if you add *one* more spike pile, you get 3996, which is the predicted RBE count.  Are you sure you didn't miscount one spike pile?

        Loading editor
    • I just killed a BFB BTD5 beginner ice level sandbox: 63 spike piles + 7 pineapples required, which adds up perfectly to 700.  The BFB MUST have 700 health.

      Also, 3164 * 4 = 12656

      which leaves the ZOMG with a nice 4k hp.  Since I showed above the ZOMG has between 3961 and 4077 health, proving the MOAB assassin deals reduced damage to around 750, we have three possible scenarios:

      1. The MOAB assassin deals a nice 750 damage and the ZOMG has this weird health of 3996,  Your results miscounted a spike pile by one.

      2. The MOAB assassin deals a very strange 750.2 damage and the ZOMG also has a weird health of 3986.

      3. As shown above, the ZOMG has 4k health, and the MOAB assassin does not deal 750 damage, in which case your results are wrong and mine may be off by a small amount.

      For example, I reported 366 spike piles + 4 spikes on the ground that I could see.  If I miscounted, and the actual number of piles were 363, then 363 * 11 + 7 = 4k hp and exactly 4 spikes are left on the ground, as I believe I observed.  It's perfect.

      In that case, assuming your numbers are correct, the MOAB Assassin would have dealt 753 damage per hit. Not so perfect.

      753 isn't a nice rounded number, but at least it's an integer.  And if we assume it's true, then *everything else* very conveniently falls into place.  We'd have:

      MOAB - RBE 616.  Subtract 4 ceramics = 200 health

      BFB - RBE 3164.  Subtract 4 MOABS = 700 health

      ZOMG - RBE 16656. Subtract 4 BFBs = 4000 health

      DDT I am not sure on.

      These numbers are almost too convenient to be wrong. 

      At any rate, in BTD5, all the balloons would have a very sensible integer health number *and* be consistent with their RBE counts.  The only assumption to be made is that MOAB assassin deals to ZOMG 753 damage, which isn't a pretty number.

      The most conclusive way now is to more exactly test the ZOMG for 4k hp with spikes and pineapples and to maybe double check the BFB RBE count somehow...

      Edit: Just tested MOAB with spikes and pineapples - 200 health exactly. 

      So now we have a certain 200 health for MOAB and a certain 700 health for BFB.  Both are seemingly RBE count consistent like all the other bloons in the game.  I have to think the chances of ZOMG having 4k hp are very high.

      You know, maybe successive MOAB assassins simply deal reduced damage with each shot, then it may not have a weird number like 753.  You'd have to test by firing one, killing with spikes; two, killing with spikes; and so forth, which is pretty tedious if anyone cared... Edit 2: nm this doesn't make sense either because you'd end up with 4 MOAB assassins somehow dealing 2765 which can't form a better integer than 753, so it's probably not the case.

        Loading editor
    • Not really...I have tested by firing all 5 MOAB Assassins at once, then I used 22 road spikes: It popped into 4 BFBs (First test)

      Second test, I did the same thing, EXCEPT that...

      I used 4 pineapples instead of the 22nd road spike.

      So, to make sure that road spikes could pop up to 11 bloons, I placed one and summoned a Black Bloon: It popped it fully.

      And to make sure that pineapples pops 1 layer, I summoned a Blue Bloon and placed one pineapple: The pineapple popped the Blue Bloon into a Red Bloon.

      So I did the calculations: 21x11 + 4 + 5000 = 5235.

      And I didn't miscount one road spike...

      And if MOAB Assassin abilities deal ~750 damage...

      ...Then why not the Technological Terror ability???

        Loading editor
    • PlantShielder wrote:

      ...Then why not the Technological Terror ability???

      No idea.  But I just tested with a ZOMG and got 363 spike piles and 7 pineapples -- exactly 4k health.

      Feel free to test different combinations of moab assassins and spikes to see how much the moab assassins are really doing.

      Also feel free to confirm my results.  It's really hard to get the count right for me.  One thing I noticed: There's a maximum number of spike piles that can be placed on one location.  I originally did stacks of 50 and unless I miscounted a stack, I was off by at least 30 spike piles by the end.

      I tried again, spreading the piles out by a small gap in stacks of 10.  On the beginner ice track on sandbox, the spacing between piles was such that the ZOMG cleared the top left circle; just as he passed the top left intersection going down, he hit the 363 pile.  I pineappled him 7 times and voila. Dead.

      If you trust there are 11 spikes in a spike pile and each spike deals one damage, as well as a pineapple deals one damage, there is no better way to prove the health of a ZOMG.

      If you don't prove otherwise, would that be agreement for me to edit out the corresponding pages?  I think it's good to leave your results but the exact value should be provided.

        Loading editor
    • I tested the technological terror on castle sandbox so I could split the fire of technological terror and hit one isolated, undamaged ZOMG.  It kills it in exactly 4 hits, so already from this we can assume the zomg has maximum 4k health and the MOAB assassin doesn't deal 1000 damage.  In fact, even though the tooltip says 1k damage, we have no idea how much it really deals because it kills all the other blimps in one hit.  It's somewhere between 700 and 1000, and depending on this value may or not be reduced by a ZOMG.

      I guess the MOAB assassin is too cheap to have such a strong ability against ZOMG. But bad communication on Kiwi's part stating 1k damage on tooltip.

      Edit: Also tested 4 MOAB Assassins + Spikes + Pineapples.  Results: 4 MOAB assassins + 89 spikes + 9 pineapples.

      This only agrees with your numbers of 5 MOAB Assasins + 21 spikes + 4 pineapples and ZOMG having 4k health if MOAB Assassins deal 753 damage each.  So it seems to be the same damage for the last two rockets, as weird as that is.

        Loading editor
    • So yeah...

      Conclusion: A ZOMG really have 4k health. The MOAB Assassins deal 753 damage, that's the why the ZOMG must take 5 hits, thus, Technological Terror ability really deals 1k damage.

        Loading editor
    • I did more tests on the MOAB Assassin, and updated its page accordingly.  The 753 makes perfect sense now.  The ability deals 750 damage instantly, while the rocket itself deals an additional 3 damage AoE.

      Thanks for the correspondence, Plant.  I'm glad we figured this out!

        Loading editor
    • Yeah. We finally discovered ZOMG's real health.

        Loading editor
    • Everyone: You're getting mixed up because of FREEPLAY HEALTH INCREASES! Calculation proves that a Round 85 ZOMG has (16656-(3164X4)) HP, or 4000 outer health. However, RBE starts to go up after a certain round.

      Also, a DDT has 974 RBE, not 924. Testing shows that a DDT reveals 6 undamaged ceramics after using Ground Zero. Also, testing shows that a GZ deals 350 damage on anything (or 350 layers of bloon). If a DDT has 300 outer health, one GZ can kill it and its children (300 + 18 = 318). However, the ceramics survive the blast with 0 damage. This means that a DDT has 350 outer health (and 974 RBE).

        Loading editor
    • thanks 21bloons! I had been a little worried about the DDT page stating it takes 350 instead of 300...but I wasn't there myself in Monkey City to test it yet.


      Part of what was confusing us with ZOMG is that MOAB assassin says it deals 1k damage when it really doesn't.  On top of that, the MOAB outer layer health wasn't stated anywhere, and the DDT appeared inconsistent with RBE.  So we weren't even sure that RBE count is always consistent with health.

        Loading editor
    • Blaisem wrote:
      thanks 21bloons! I had been a little worried about the DDT page stating it takes 350 instead of 300...but I wasn't there myself in Monkey City to test it yet.


      Part of what was confusing us with ZOMG is that MOAB assassin says it deals 1k damage when it really doesn't.  On top of that, the MOAB outer layer health wasn't stated anywhere, and the DDT appeared inconsistent with RBE.  So we weren't even sure that RBE count is always consistent with health.

      Actually, I'm the one who fixed the DDT page. And I'm 210577bloons, not 21bloons.

        Loading editor
    • 210577bloons wrote:
      Everyone: You're getting mixed up because of FREEPLAY HEALTH INCREASES! Calculation proves that a Round 85 ZOMG has (16656-(3164X4)) HP, or 4000 outer health. However, RBE starts to go up after a certain round.

      We're talking about the health of it when NOT on higher rounds .-.

        Loading editor
    • Also, the HP of a ZOMG is 4085 when on the round of its debut :P

      From Round 1 to 85, it adds 1 health more to blimps, but it add 0% health to blimps, thus, the ZOMG real HP is 4k, but since it appears on Round 85, his health has changed to 4085 .-.

        Loading editor
    • Oh cool did not know that, thanks Plant!

        Loading editor
    • PlantShielder wrote: Also, the HP of a ZOMG is 4085 when on the round of its debut :P

      From Round 1 to 85, it adds 1 health more to blimps, but it add 0% health to blimps, thus, the ZOMG real HP is 4k, but since it appears on Round 85, his health has changed to 4085 .-.

      I'm not so sure about that. I tested both on March 11 2012's Daily Challenge "ZOMG" as well as a Round 85 save file I had. In both tests, the ZOMG popped after 4000 hits exactly. This disproves your theory.

      I used a combination of 4/1 and 2/1 Sniper Monkeys (25 damage per "group" of Snipers per shot) to strip the ZOMG health down to 3975, then down to 3999 using a 1/1 Sniper Monkey. A Dart Monkey provided the final pop (4000). I also tested this with Big Bloon Sabotage turned on, and the result was, as expected, 2000 health.

      I also tested using 5 MOAB Assassin missiles (3765), then used the Sniper Monkeys to reduce health down to 3990, then down to 3997 with a 2/1 Sniper Monkey, before using a Dart Monkey for the final 3 pops.


      The seemingly strange 753 damage from the MOAB Assassin missile is explained by Thread:56654#9 (read the first post as well). The missile itself deals 750 damage, but the small explosion after the missile hits deals an extra 3 damage.

        Loading editor
    • Thanks for testing the round 85 ZOMG, SW8.  I also ran tests on the MOAB Assassin (see above) and edited my results into the MOAB Assassin page.

        Loading editor
    • So, the HP of a blimp doesn't change until it appears...Alright...

        Loading editor
    • PlantShielder wrote:
      So, the HP of a blimp doesn't change until it appears...Alright...

      Also, you need to reach Freeplay Mode for blimp health to increase.

        Loading editor
    • 210577bloons wrote:
      PlantShielder wrote:
      So, the HP of a blimp doesn't change until it appears...Alright...
      Also, you need to reach Freeplay Mode for blimp health to increase.

      But I always do Freeplay Mode on Easy! ._.

      It only counts Hard Mode Freeplay then...

        Loading editor
    • PlantShielder wrote:
      210577bloons wrote:
      PlantShielder wrote:
      So, the HP of a blimp doesn't change until it appears...Alright...
      Also, you need to reach Freeplay Mode for blimp health to increase.
      But I always do Freeplay Mode on Easy! ._.

      It only counts Hard Mode Freeplay then...

      No, that's not how it works. You need to reach Freeplay AND see the ZOMG appear in order for its health to go up. Check Freeplay Mode for more info.

        Loading editor
    • 210577bloons wrote:
      PlantShielder wrote:
      210577bloons wrote:
      PlantShielder wrote:
      So, the HP of a blimp doesn't change until it appears...Alright...
      Also, you need to reach Freeplay Mode for blimp health to increase.
      But I always do Freeplay Mode on Easy! ._.

      It only counts Hard Mode Freeplay then...

      No, that's not how it works. You need to reach Freeplay AND see the ZOMG appear in order for its health to go up. Check Freeplay Mode for more info.

      That's what I meant of "So, the HP of a blimp doesn't change until it appears"! Also, I read that before, and it increases by one the health of the introduced blimps .-.

        Loading editor
    • For example: A player playing on Round 50 on Easy won't face MOABs with increased health because they aren't in freeplay yet.

        Loading editor
    • Blimp health simply begins increasing after Round 85 has finished. If I did my calculations and remember correctly, I think blimps have approximately 150% health on Round 86.

        Loading editor
    • But there's a table saying that it increases HP by 1 + 0% on the freeplay before Round 85!

        Loading editor
    • PlantShielder wrote:
      But there's a table saying that it increases HP by 1 + 0% on the freeplay before Round 85!

      No way, SW. This person is right; there's no way that blimp health would face such dastardly increases.

        Loading editor
    • PlantShielder wrote: But there's a table saying that it increases HP by 1 + 0% on the freeplay before Round 85!

      Where? If there is some information on the wiki that is incorrect, you can help us by updating it :)

      210577bloons wrote:

      PlantShielder wrote:
      But there's a table saying that it increases HP by 1 + 0% on the freeplay before Round 85!

      No way, SW. This person is right; there's no way that blimp health would face such dastardly increases.

      Well here's a post from Aaron giving the formula for blimp health increase, which occurs after Round 85 has finished. Regardless of what reality may seem like, that's what NK says.

        Loading editor
    • Not 150%. It's only 102% by Round 86 according to that post. So you did something wrong.

      EDIT: I withdraw whatever I said in that quote box. I thought PS said 0 + 0%.

        Loading editor
    • I think the second formula in the link might have been messed up.

      "Then after round 105 it changes to maxHealth = health * (1.5 + ((waveNum - 30) * 0.05) + 30 * 0.02);"

      Problem parts highlighted in bold.  The 30 is to prevent the 0.05 from applying to previous freeplay rounds; however, there are only 20 rounds between 86 to 105.  So three possibilities:

      1. The 30 is supposed to be a 20.

      2. The formula begins on round 115 and not 105.

      3. Bloons have 1.68x health on round 104, but only 0.60x health on round 105.

      I think 3 would be *really* easy to rule out, since it's a drop in health by 2/3.  I don't play free play, but I'm sure some of you would notice it.  I suppose to prove the rest, you'd have to compare round, say 110, if it has become much harder than round 104.  In the same freeplay run, you could also compare round 120 to 115.  This would let us know if it's scaling faster starting at 105, or if the tougher scaling doesn't occur until 115.

        Loading editor
    • Oh, and I also tested a Sandbox ZOMG with the 0/4 Bomb -> 0/3 Bomb -> 2/1 Sniper -> Epic 0/0 Dart Monkey that annhilated it. Result: 4000 HP

        Loading editor
    • And the formula is crazy. I used a calculator to check.

      Variables

      HP: x

      Wave: 105

      Result: 5.85x HP. I had no errors in my typing.

      I changed the part waveNum - 30 to waveNum - 20.

      Result: 6.35x HP.

      Then I changed both.

      Result: 6.15x HP.

        Loading editor
    • Perhaps there is indeed a typo in Aaron's post.

        Loading editor
    • Blaisem wrote:
      Interesting.  Strange because for the other balloons, the RBE value is consistent with their first layer's health (using Wiki sources).  That makes me wonder if the ZOMG takes reduced damage from some other sources.

      BTD 4/5 values

      M.O.A.B = 613 / 616 RBE.  Subtract 4 ceramics (104 RBE) to get 197 / 200. According to trivia, 20/21 spikes are needed to pop the first layer, or 200 / 220 damage.  The trivia doesn't say whether the entire spike pile is used up, so both of these fall within required numbers to be consistent with RBE.

      BFB = 2884 / 3165 RBE.  Subtract 4 MOAB to get 432 / 701.  According to trivia, it takes 288 / 317 spikes to pop the BFB.  This puts us at ~41 / 82 to pop the outer layer, or 410 / 910 damage.  The BTD4 spike value is about consistent.  The trivia also reports Moab Mauler only needing 70 attacks to pop the outer layer, which is consistent with 700 damage.

      ZOMG = 16,656 RBE.  Subtract 4 BFB to get 3996. 

      DDT = 924 RBE.  Subtract 6 ceramics to get 300.  Front page says it requires 350.

      So even though the other balloons are off slightly (MOAB and BFB almost negligible), the difference in ZOMG is really big which is strange.  Either the ZOMG is an exception, or he takes reduced damage from MOAB assassin, which wouldn't be surprising since he takes reduced damage from a lot of attacks.

      Thanks for the reply!


      MOAB Assassin was nerfed, but the description wasn't changed. It actually deals enough damage to pop the outer layer of a BFB or under. As for the ZOMG, it deals 750 damage - not 1000. However, the explosion of MOAB Assassin deals an extra 3 damage, so ZOMG takes a total of 753 damage from a single MOAB Assassin.

        Loading editor
    • From RBE:

      MOAB: 200

      BFB: 700

      ZOMG: 4000

      DDT: 300 (although Ground Zero deals 350 damage and will pop DDTs but not their children.

      Note that these are the BTD5 values. In BMC, the health of all bloons (except for the DDT because it is BMC-exclusive) is 33% less (133 for MOAB, 467 for BFB and 2667 for ZOMG)

        Loading editor
    • PlantShielder wrote:
      210577bloons wrote:
      Everyone: You're getting mixed up because of FREEPLAY HEALTH INCREASES! Calculation proves that a Round 85 ZOMG has (16656-(3164X4)) HP, or 4000 outer health. However, RBE starts to go up after a certain round.
      We're talking about the health of it when NOT on higher rounds .-.

      But RBE goes down when you reach Freeplay because the black, white, zebra, rainbow and ceramics don't split and the extra ceramic health doesn't make up for it.

        Loading editor
    • 86.178.102.35 wrote:

      But RBE goes down when you reach Freeplay because the black, white, zebra, rainbow and ceramics don't split and the extra ceramic health doesn't make up for it.

      Cool I didn't know they didn't split!

      Also, do you know how money earned from killing bloons is reduced in later rounds?

        Loading editor
    • 86.178.102.35 wrote: As for the ZOMG, it deals 750 damage - not 1000. However, the explosion of MOAB Assassin deals an extra 3 damage, so ZOMG takes a total of 753 damage from a single MOAB Assassin.

      Yes, we've tested that above (post #19).

      And yes, the 'Super Ceramics' that appear in Freeplay have extra Ceramic shell health, but don't split any more, to reduce lag.

        Loading editor
    • Well, we are talking about the OUTER LAYER OF BLIMPS in this thread. Please remember not to count Ceramic bloon HP decreases in the 'RBE'.

        Loading editor
    • ANd that anon is me.

        Loading editor
    • SW8573 wrote:

      86.178.102.35 wrote: As for the ZOMG, it deals 750 damage - not 1000. However, the explosion of MOAB Assassin deals an extra 3 damage, so ZOMG takes a total of 753 damage from a single MOAB Assassin.

      Yes, we've tested that above (post #19).

      And yes, the 'Super Ceramics' that appear in Freeplay have extra Ceramic shell health, but don't split any more, to reduce lag.

      Uhh...Super Ceramics only appear in BTD Battles. :/

        Loading editor
    • No, they appear in BTD5 (Round 86 onwards) and BMC (Round 30 onwards) as well. I've personally witnessed them.

        Loading editor
    • SW8573 wrote:
      No, they appear in BTD5 (Round 86 onwards) and BMC (Round 30 onwards) as well. I've personally witnessed them.

      Me too, in 31 in a Desert CT 2 months ago. They do spawn single children. Same goes for BTD5 (they got 5ish hits but their coverings didn't crack).

        Loading editor
    • Here are the RBE (HPs) of some of the known Big Bloons: (Total, counting the ceramics inside, as ceramics have 104 RBE each.)

      Mini-MOAB: 94

      MOAB: 616

      BFB: 3,164

      ZOMG: 16,656

      DDT: Unknown (So far by me.)

      The IBBC: 78,580 (A huge cluster of big bloons found on a certain round past 85.)

      These RBE recordings are based off of BTD5, BTDB, and BMC level RBE recordings.

        Loading editor
    • Wait what is this ibbc? I didn't see it on the wiki here?

        Loading editor
    • Blaisem wrote:
      Wait what is this ibbc? I didn't see it on the wiki here?


        Loading editor
    • your mad look at the wiki that will tell u!

        Loading editor
    • First layer has 4000 health

        Loading editor
    • A Bloons Wiki contributor
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.